The question is, why isnt she working at Mcdonalds....could make alot more than $340 a month

There are always exceptions to the rule, and then there are the people who fit the stereotypes (either that, or there wouldn't be stereotypes).

I don't mean to say this as anything against your friend, but I have known many people on welfare, and there are ways to get off it if they try.

Ok, so she is going to school. That is great. But why isn't she just working until her son is old enough to be in school? Or, why isn't she taking night classes when somebody else can watch them? If she doesn't have anyone to watch them, why is she staying in a city that is expensive to live in? She could work at McDonalds for $7.00 an hour (that is the starting wage in my small town, so i am sure that it is higher there). If she worked 30 hours a week, that is $210 a week- $840 a month. Since it is still low income, she would still be able to get food stamps (for the kids) and all the other government benefits, just not welfare itself.

You don't need to have a college degree to go places in life, you just have to work really hard. I can say that because, well, I don't have a bachelors degree, but I worked hard to get to where I am because I never wanted to rely on anyone but myself. I have also seen generation after generation on welfare, so I know that you *can* live on it.

How do those women get those cars? It's simple- they have kids and never get married or work. They then live on Welfare and have their "boyfriends" extra income. There are also a lot of people on welfare that work places that they get paid in cash (like house cleaning or babysitting) and never claim the income.....

Well, the starting pay at Mickey D's here is $5.75 per hour. She used to work at White Castle making $6.00 per hour. The State cut her medical, making her deductible $100 per month, and she still had to pay the medicine deductible. Also, she had to help pay for her schooling, due to the new cuts in Pell Grants. Since most of her family lives in Chicago, moving to a small town where she knows no one is not an option. She doesn't have much family support, so she can't rely on family to baby sit. It seems to me as if they punish you for working, they punish you by cutting the most expensive thing, and that's medical. Most fast food restaurants don't offer health insurance. She told me that her case worker said that if she concentrates on school, she could still receive the small grant, medical, and food stamps. So, that's why she's concentrating on school. Thank you for caring enough to try to come up with solutions to help her.

My reaction exactly, why doesn't your friend get a job.

Let me tell you how I picture the average welfare recipient:

Some damn fool girl who gets knocked up with 2 kids from some scummy guy or guys who couldn't afford them, has no skills, and cries that the government won't take care of her.

Sounds a lot like your friend.

There are only TWO things you have to do to avoid being poor:

1) Finish high school

2) DON'T have children until you are 25.

That's it. Only 8% of people on welfare followed those two things and still managed to be poor.

Well, she definitely should have waited until she had more stability in her life to have children, but as long as she's trying to better her life, I can't criticize her. Sometimes people need extra help, and sometimes people make mistakes, but as long as they don't exploit the help they receive, then it's all good.

"no place, and I do mean no place, that rents an apartment for less than $300 a month"

Not true at all. Public and HUD housing does, nationwide. It is based on your income. I lived in in an apartment complex when I got out of college and the lady across the parking lot from me was paying $90 dollars a month rent. I was paying about $350 for an identical apartment. That was 1994, so I wouldn't expect it to have changed all that much. It was very nice, with none of the 'criminal element' crap you see about public housing on television. There was bad public housing in that town, too, you just have to be choosy about where you pick. Most people don't realize that a lot of the smaller buildings and even privately rented property are HUD approved.

Not making any judgments about your friend, but if she shares your belief that you can't rent an apartment for less than $300 she is wrong.

Exploiting, that is the problem. The majority of people on welfare exploit their situation. I worked with this one person who worked at an auto factory making $20 an hour. He had a very nice house, couple cars and frequently went on nice vacations.

His wife, well, technically not his wife because they never married, stayed home and collected welfare for herself and two children. She could do this because they never married. And the house and cars were in his name. And I know this went on for years.

Granted, this is probably one of those extreme cases but there are plenty of people who exploit and abuse the system. Now I don't mind helping out those who truely need the help. But when you don't do anything to better your own situation or abuse then the system, well, then I really do not feel that those people should get a dime of my money, which, I have worked hard for.

Well, to the person who said that she shouldn't have had kids, what was she to do get an abortion? The father pays child support, to the state. Yes, she's heard of hud, and other low income housing, but as I said before, in a city with so many poor people there's a 10-15 year waiting list. Private hud housing, any low income housing in the city of Chicago has long waiting list. Completing high school does not get you out of the trenches, you need more than a high school diploma to make it in this world. I know a lot of people who've had kids after 25, with a high school diploma, and they're still poor as dirt. Sorry to burst your bubble, but a high school diploma doesn't take you where it took you in the good old days. She has a high school diploma, and she still would have to get a job at Mickey D's, some Mickey D's REQUIRE you to have a high school diploma. I admire anyone who has their kids, instead of using abortion as a form of birth control. Anybody can fall on their luck, and any human being can make mistakes. I just wish there was a better form of welfare, something that would truly help people out. Something that would teach job skills, and basic survival skills, because it's a dog eat dog world.

"Was she supposed to get an abortion"?

I'm not proposing anything but the obvious - having children when you can't afford them isn't society's fault. Welfare is essentially coerced charity out of the rest of society. Most people, thankfully, have enough sense not to have TWO children.

I didn't say that high school was all you needed. Note I said TWO things: 1) Highschool education AND 2) Don't have children until you're 25. Both of those things. She chose to have 2 children.

Instead of "Abortion" as a form of birth control how about just plain old common sense and/or REAL birth control? She has TWO children. Not one.

I don't wish for better welfare, I wish for people to take more personal responsibility.

"in a city with so many poor people there's a 10-15 year waiting list"

Wow. I can't vouch for Chicago, but I have never been anywhere that was that extreme. I've often wondered if part of the problem with poverty is that people in need become concentrated in one place, and held their by subsistence benefits. Maybe there should be incentive for those in need to move to places with less concentrated populations of poor. Compared to supporting a poor family in a poor urban area, it might be cheaper to move them somewhere more prosperous. The town I lived in had several public housing apartment complexes and there was always a 'for rent' sign out front. The only problem I guess is people can't afford to pick up and move.

I think the problem is that most poor people are...well dumb. Statistically anyway. And part of the being dumb part means being unusually UNresourceful. That means not figuring out that you can get shoes for free for your kids. Not knowing that you can get clothes for your kids basically for free. Not thinking of simply moving 20 miles away to the subs since she's obviously not tied down to a "job".

unfortunately she is a victum of abused welfare.

i'm in texas and we have a rehababilition prorgram for those who need help in getting back into the workforce. it could be for a person who was disabled, is disablied or getting off welfare. there are also housing programs for unmarried women to live in rent free, but require them to activately seek a job, only they must follow their rules. there is help with daycare and other things. i am a single mom who has raised all three of my kids without welfare or child support. I never heard of section 8 housing until after mine were 18. i am currently disabliled and cant get on ssi. i could have used some of those services available, had i known about them. i managed to take care of myself, three kids and make 56K a year with only a high school diploma. i had no family support either. i worked two jobs for a while, a nd did get baby sitting help from my mother and a few friends for that, but none during the daytime. i had too much pride to get on welfare. i just worked hard and with luck was at the right place at the right time to earn a salary like that. none of us know the complete situation your friend is in, and you probably dont either, cause most people will not tell everything about their private lifes. we have people on the street panhandling for money, who probably live in a nice house ect. they just dont want to work. and there are some who genuenly need help, but how can you tell the difference? in this generation, wellfare is not all blacks and cadillacs. they are whites, hispanics, and other nationalities, and they drive all kinds of cars. there is lots of abuse in the system. maybe she isnt one who abuses it and is a victum, but she can do more if she is PHYSICALLY and MENTALLY capable. these are the only two requirements needed to make it in this world. i'm from the baby boom generation. neither of my parents finished high school and they were never on welfare either. people are only going to do what is important to them and nothing more. people should stop whyning and do something about their problems or shut up. right now i get a disability check from my employer because i purchased that coverage from them, when that runs out and i can get ssi. then im sure i will find a way to take care of myself.

After leaving an abusive marriage with 3 small children and no viable work skills I was forced onto welfare. Like your friend you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. I could of gotten a job paying minimum wage however by the time you calculate in sitters,transit costs, and all the deductions off the pay cheque then I was better off on welfare. New shoes were only when needed, lots of eggs, soups. etc. and Mcdonald's to my children was like a turkey dinner. We got through it my children are all grown and thrifty and I am now fully employed at a job I enjoy. And yes the government takes the support money when and if it is paid here in Canada as well. Tell your friend heads up and the Hell with what everyone else thinks.

Draginol, commonsense, and class prevent me from saying what I truly want to say to you. To say poor people are dumb, is well, DUMB. Most people in the world are poor, in case you didn't know. I would never look down on someone because they're poor. Most people who are financially poor, are rich in other things, which you might not know about. They don't sit home and judge people because they fall down on their luck. She has 2 kids, and each one of her kids are angel's. News flash Draginol, everyday someone falls down on their luck and finds themselves in the unfortunate situation of being poor. People who thought they had it all because they played by the rules and didn't do the "dumb" things that poor people do. So what do you say about someone who waited to have their 2.5 kids, a house in the burbs, and then loses their job and needs help from the government? Do you think they're dumb because they find themselves in the unfortunate situation of being poor? Because some rich CEO wanted to increase the bottom line and decide to downsize him? Yes, I am in support of a better welfare, a welfare that would teach people life skills to get by. I would rather see my tax dollars go toward better welfare for the poor, and for goodness sake, prescription medication for the elderly, and most of all, better education. I would rather see it go towards those things, than towards a war that is unnecessary. Before we try to "liberate" another country, we need to try and solve some of the problems in this country. Such as, the poor, homeless, and the people without medical care. Before we try to look down on someone else, we need to walk in their shoes. Unless every rich person could experience being poor, this world is doomed. Until you know how it feels to not be able to put food on your table, shoe's on your kids feet, and heat in your home, don't sit in your armchair judging someone who is in that predicament. That goes for you, and any other person, myself included, who judges someone for having too many kids, not enough education, and not being smart enough to handle themselves. Powerstar, I passed your words of encouragement along to my friend, and she sends her thanks for understanding.